Discussion of 'What Leads to Happy Relationships' article.

by Phil Beaumont
('What Leads to Happy Relationships' Article)

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Mar 15, 2012
Pleasure
by: Lynn

Phil, you are welcome! I truly appreciate the space and allowance for open expression and viewing on this subject. It was personally very much needed for me at this time. Thank you so much.

Mar 13, 2012
Needs
by: Phil

Thanks for your perspective, Lynn.

Mar 12, 2012
Getting out of Love's way
by: Lynn

Thanks for sharing your experience, Phil. Honoring Love by getting out of the way doesn't sound odd to me.

I've been looking closely at how needs work in relationships and have seen there is many ways we attempt to hide our needs of the other. We do this mainly because of the negative connotation that goes with being "needy." Not saying this is you or Marie. I will say, though, that I don't see your experience as: "a good relationship showed up because you realized you didn't need it," but rather that it was exactly what you did "need" (or at least want) at that time to show yourself what you were trying to see about Love. I suspect you still had desire for relationship at the time but that your resentment over your "hellish" relationship was suppressing that desire into the subconscious.

This probably helped you because it seems the manifestation of our desires is mainly a subconscious thing. Meaning, what we truly want is at the sub level and creation of it happens from there. This may or may not match what we are attempting to create on purpose (i.e. what is going on consciously).

This brings me back to the idea of relationships as growth. Your "hellish" relationship was great practice for this one, as well as a facilitating factor helping you to attract this one (in the "suppressive" way I just described). Sounds like perfection!

Perhaps our first tries at relationship are much like the bumps we got falling off our two-wheeler before we got the hang of it. And notice we don't stay with the same bike through our childhood, they come in sizes as we grow. We could say you and Marie are the right size for each other now, meaning, you couldn't be doing this at this time, with just anyone. Your person-alities (where you each are in your personal growth) have everything to do with it. And since people grow and change at different rates, having just one happily-ever-after relationship isn't at all realistic.

To add some of my own experience, I just got done resisting in a different way. Which was resisting letting go of a hellish (needy) relationship of 16 years (13 as married). As it turned out, letting go of the relationship was really more about real-izing ("being real about") our needs for each other, than it was about actually becoming less needy. Meaning, what really changed is we stopped pretending that we wanted the same things out of the relationship, and saw the ways we were both using it more as a means to an end for our individual (and quite different) needs and desires. Seeing this didn't make us want to stay together, in fact it smacked us in the face with the reality that we do need/want to move on from each other. But it did help us come to the common desire to help each other with those needs so we CAN eventually move on, peaceably as friends. In which case the relationship hasn't ended so much as it has been redefined. Talk about "getting out of Love's way"... that's it.

Mar 12, 2012
Need vs Desire
by: Phil

Hi Lynn
Yes, I agree with everything you've said. We may have to distinguish between need and desire, which is always tricky. The feeling that 'I need a partner to complete me', or however that need may be experienced, is different from, as you say, "the personal expression of" genuine Love, which is all about relating on various levels.

When Marie and I met, there was no interest in forming an intimate relationship, and no such need experienced. I had just ended a rather hellish one which nevertheless left me in a state of total self acceptance and all such needs vanished completely.

However....something was happening on a level I wasn't very familiar with at the time because this spontaneous expression of 'impersonal Love' was new to me. Because of my recent experience, I resisted for a while until it became so clear and obvious that I let go and went with the flow.

That was eight years ago, and Love has only deepened as we've both become more empty of need. I'm sure it sounds odd to some but we honor that Love by getting out of the way and staying out.

I also agree that this 'pointing' to genuine Love might be grasped as a method by which one may fulfill the need, and of course this won't work, which is why I talk about self love.

Mar 08, 2012
Clearer
by: Lynn

Actually if taking out the personal is the goal over there, I won't try to stop you... (hehe)

Please let me try to make my previous point more clearly because I think I digressed a bit... I was addressing your statement that wonderful relationships often show up when it is seen they are not needed. I don't disagree, just asked what would create that, and you then talked about Love, but also dismissed the idea that desire has anything to do with it.

Let's back up and take a look at what has really happened in the seeing that relationships are not "needed." As you say, Love presents in the absence of need. This has been seen here, and what was actually seen is that Love is present whether there is "relationship" or not, and this is how it is realized that the relationship is not needed, and in fact Love is not dependent upon anything personal... rather, the personal is an expression OF IT.

Therefore, there really is no good reason after seeing that, for this wonderful relationship to show up, except for some desire for Love to express in that particular form. You implied desire is strictly personal, but perhaps, it's not so much... ?

In any case, I think I mainly wanted to address this because if we simply put this idea out there that once we stop needing a relationship, it will show up... we then often get the person (ego) trying to do a reverse psychology thingy on herself... basically pretending that she doesn't need to be in a relationship, as a manipulative way to try to create a good relationship (which she obviously still has "needs" for or she wouldn't be trying that). I'm not saying it can't work that way, lol... but it's certainly not the effortless way you spoke of... it is actually still the same expectation thingy... as in, "I have to DO this, so I can GET that." ... And so here we are still bound by the same needs.


Mar 08, 2012
Love expresses
by: Lynn

Yes, need is based in fear and can seem to act as a blockage to Love.

However, I would say the person, and the personal relationship are expressions of Love. Personal desire seems to act as a facilitator of that expression. We could say need does this as well. Have you witnessed this expression (the personal relationship) coming into existence otherwise? In the absence of personal desire or need? Once again, it would seem to me that in the absence of either of these, no "relationship" would ever occur. That's not to say that Love is not expressing in other forms. But we are here talking about interpersonal relationships... now don't go trying to take the personal out of the interpersonal, or I might throw a hissy fit, lol.

Mar 07, 2012
Love
by: Phil

I'd say Love is not actually the fulfillment of personal desire, as it is fundamentally impersonal. Love presents in the absence of need.

Mar 07, 2012
No needs?
by: Lynn

Yes, this is another idea that good relationships form only after we decide we don't need one. This only makes me wonder, what would create that? The relationship doesn't have to be based on "need" necessarily, but certainly there must be desire for one to happen, even if it's not conscious desire. And then I suppose we'd have to start drawing lines between what is "need" and what is "desire"... I could go as far as to say that your description of the "ideal relationship" in which ALL expression is enjoyed and appreciated, is still fulfilling a "need" of a particular type of enjoyment. After all, if we could be just as happy in or out of a relationship, what would be the point of relationships at all?

Mar 07, 2012
Exploring need
by: Phil

Hi Lynn
Yeah, the idea that relationships fail because we don't quite get it right assumes the purpose of them is to do it right, while as you imply they're just an expression of our desires, needs, fears, etc. Naturally, they then serve the purpose of helping us to explore our own boundaries of awareness.

Ironically, wonderful relationships often form effortlessly once we find that we no longer need one, since it is the need that we are exploring, and which inevitably sabotages the relationship.

Mar 07, 2012
Well done
by: Lynn

I agree with every word of this. Well done, Phil. What you wrote at the end... "this level of happiness requires a well rounded integration of both partners such that need fulfillment is no longer at the core of relating"... is so true I think, and unfortunately it seems it is rare for both partners to be in that place. However, what I see is that relationships can also help bring us to this point. And (I may get shot for saying this, but... ) we may actually have to move around for a while to be with different types of people at different times of our lives, depending on what we're working on. One school of thought will say that those who have had many so-called "failed" relationships, have done so because they keep looking for the same thing and repeating the same mistakes... I disagree with that. I know for myself I have emerged from each relationship I've been involved in, a changed person, and I can see clearly what I was working on in each one and why I needed to be with that particular person to do so. In this way I see relationships serve the purpose of growth as well as happiness.

Mar 01, 2012
Love
by: Phil

Thanks, Marie.
Yes, what we're really looking for is Love; to be accepted, appreciated, enjoyed, allowed to be what we are. Acceptance, gratitude and appreciation naturally happen when there are no expectations.

Mar 01, 2012
Being Free of Expectations
by: Anonymous

Good thoughts, Phil! I have found in my relationship that being free of expectations, ironically fills whatever need may show up. Looking forward to reading more.

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